BUG (Medium) Subgenre Determinism

This is not catching well in some cases. I’m slowly widening my genre base and so far have found the following issues where subgenres are popping up in unintended places - I will update with more as I find them. This is with custom genres set to OFF:

  • Classical
    • Baroque Pop lists here as Baroque
    • Rock Opera lists here as Opera
  • Jazz
    • New Jack Swing lists here as Swing

Other Observations (less urgent)

  • Folk Pop does not appear under Folk and maybe should.
  • Film Score does NOT show under Classical and possibly should be a Subgenre here AND under Soundtrack

Additional issues found with Classical Subgenres logged separately but may be related

Avant Garde Jazz albums are appearing under Classical > Modernism. This feels like the same bug again, with genre name catching being too broad.

Another - New Romantic is showing correctly under Pop but also under Classical as Romantic

Jazz Pop appears as a subgenre of Pop.

Jazz Rock appears as a subgenre of Rock and Jazz > Fusion - Jazz Pop should probably appear here too.

Another one I found for this:

Dance Rock appears under Electronic as “Dance” and really shouldn’t, this feels like the same issue that’s crearing bleed in Classical (from the beginning)

Here’s another example of what feels like the same text matching bug:

British Rhythm & Blues should be under Soul > R&B

It also appears under Blues as a Subgenre which is incorrect. I have my whole Rolling Stones catalogue under Blues….

@lorin.bute Any idea what the issue is here?

This is actually probably my main pain point at the moment with Subgenres appearing where they shouldn’t.

I’m working on a fix for it. I will update you as soon as I fixed it.

Anything I can do to help let me know - It’s a great testing ground for me at the moment as I’m gradually changing and adding stuff.

I’m trying to create a general rule and not patch every genre possible because it would take forever.

Let take a few examples:

  1. Dance Rock refers to Rock music with dance influences so it makes sense to be under Rock.
  2. Jazz Rock refers to Rock music with jazz influences so it makes sense to be under Rock.
  3. Jazz Pop - the same, under Pop.
  4. Avant Garde Jazz should be under Jazz.
  5. British Rhythm & Blues should be under R&B.

This differs a little bit from what you posted. Would this be an acceptable solution or do you have something better in mind?

The catch all doesn’t really work - The Genre Taxonomy you posted up on the website is almost perfect, but there are a few cross genre types which it doesn’t catch which should have 2 parents (see below). I’d use that as the starter bible then tweak from there.

I’ve noted those as I’m working through and re-tagging everything (a slow process…)

As a starter the taxonomy should be fixed, otherwise you get nasty unintentional weirdness like:

  • New Romantic showing as the Classical Romantic subgenre
  • Same with Baroque Pop

With the examples above:

  • Dance Pop is Pop - not Dance (as in Electronic)
  • Dance Rock is Rock (same logic)
  • British Rhythm & Blues is NOT R&B / Soul - It’s closer to Blues Rock / Classic Rock and contains bands like The Rolling Stones - This doesn’t fit under R&B at all - That’s really jarring. It’s more of a microgenre of Rhythm & Blues (which is under Blues, not R&B, which is (mind meltingly) a completely different thing.
  • Jazz Pop and Jazz Rock are fusion genres and belong in both Jazz AND Pop, Folk Pop / Folk Rock / Country Pop / Country Rock are all similar examples of this. Soul Blues is another.

Genres are almost as annoying as Classical tagging and partial string matching doesn’t really work. I started with 20 custom genres and I’m now up to 128 and name crossover in partial matching is getting progressively more problematic.

Also, NOT matching over matching is probably better - If something misses out on a random microgenre it’ll probably also have it’s parent anyway in many cases, but accidentally capturing a wrong genre is more difficult (The Baroque Pop / New Romantic example springs to mind)

I solved the issue as per your request.

Lorin.

You can check the new taxonomy here: Genre taxonomy · Serento . It’s not yet in the app. But the website has been updated with the new version.

Great - I’ll look at it tomorrow.

I’m gradually re-tagging through my insanely large collection and stress-testing as I go, effectively. I’ve done 60s and 70s so far with a bit of 80s and a few Classical diversions, hence the types of genres I’ve reported.

I’ll re-check it all when the new version is out.

Any chance for an OK from you? :smiley:

Is this server side / resync + enrich only?

If so I’ll check it out later today

It would help if you could search online (the link above) for the genres you were having issues with and confirm that they are in the right place. If it’s OK than I can release the app.

The taxonomy is not server side. Its built in the app.

Ah-ha! I’m with you. I will look it over later today.